Mei Liao Wants to Challenge You with Sardines

Tinned fish has been enjoying an extended moment. A few years ago, it made its way into the hearts of the self-proclaimed “hot girls,” dominating our social media feeds; now it’s near ubiquitous, found in vibrant millennial-friendly packaging and on trendy wine bar menus. But very little of this factors into how Meijie (Mei) Liao approaches tinned seafood.

For Mei, the founder and recipe developer behind the James Beard-nominated Instagram account @daywithmei, tinned fish is the ultimate convenience food, but it’s also one that “epitomizes [her] own experience overcoming bias.” Mei approaches the subject like she approaches everything—from recipe development to food science—with an intense, palpable curiosity. Her thoughtfulness is immediately apparent, even over Zoom. On a recent call, Mei shared her deep knowledge of and appreciation for the canned protein, with strategies for widening one’s palate to appreciate the many tins of sardines, tuna and even octopus that line the grocery store shelves.

Want to hear more from Mei? Listen to her Milk Street Radio Interview.

I love the way you gently challenge people to when talking about tinned fish. Why are you so enthusiastic about this particular category of tinned food?

One of the things I think about, when we think about canned seafood, [is that] it’s a lot like a lot of these other categories of food that may be a little bit polarizing. I think of cheese as a place that’s very similar. I might come to the cheesemonger with preferences. Maybe I know I’m not into blue cheeses, I’m not into Stiltons. But there’s just so much variety and breadth within that, that sometimes it just takes someone to make me aware of it. I just don’t know the options that are out there. I know that there’s cheddar and there’s gouda, and that’s about it. But there’s so much depth that can be within that.

In the same way, you can find cheese that’s $5 a pound. You can find cheese that’s $50 a pound. And there’s so much variety within that. So when I think of a way to communicate that, a lot of times it is just sharing the facts and trying to inform people that there is diversity within that, and then also challenging that preconceived notion of, “Sardines are food that I find at the dollar store.”

There is actually a lot of craft and a lot of care that can go into it that just isn’t very widely communicated. When I think of these foods that I really love, these are artisans that I really respect, and being able to speak to that with a level of passion and to be very genuine and earnest about that is something that felt very important to me. But again, we’re really turning this notion of sardines on its head.

What’s a good “starter” tinned seafood?

When I think of what it means to introduce someone to this, one of the most common objections I hear is the idea of putting a whole fish in a can. When we eat fish, normally, we’re thinking about bones and scales and skin and all these things. So, if we take that out of the equation, I think it makes it so much less daunting. That’s one less mental hurdle to jump through, one less form of that dissonance and disconnect.

And [another one] is a lot of very strong, fishy flavors. Fish like, frankly, tuna—if you’ve never had tuna before, it can be kind of difficult to feel accustomed to that. I grew up eating tuna here in the States, and it’s something that I’m very familiar with, but if I’m introducing it to someone who doesn’t have that context, tuna ends up being quite strong.

So when I’m looking for fish that are a little less fishy, I think of flaky white fish that are very neutral. And even mackerel. I think mackerel are one of the most accessible fish that are sold in cans, in filet form, that aren’t tuna. So that eliminates the three objections, I think—skin and bones, the appearance of whole fish, and overly fishy flavor.

What about tinned shellfish? Are those a more advanced point of entry?

I think it’s so interesting that we use this language of, “beginner” or “advanced,” with the way that we see seafood. And a lot of it just comes down to familiarity and exposure to it. Maybe it’s just how many degrees away it is from a more common point of reference. When I think of canned mollusks, I think of things like mussels or oysters, because of the way they’re processed. They’re quite different in texture from the ones that are fresh. I think that, in turn, makes them a little bit more challenging, because we’re again subverting people’s expectations.

But as far as flavor goes, I also receive feedback frequently that people who may not be into small oily fish, like sardines or anchovies, they actually quite like mollusks, because they give you that different flavor and different texture experience. But if you already have that mindset of a fresh, raw oyster, or what are fresh steamed mussels, I think you’re going to have to treat [the tinned version] a little bit differently.

You have so many appealing recipes for tinned seafood on your website. What are some of your favorite preparations?

One of the ways that I think about this when I’m developing a recipe that’s really targeted towards a very wide audience is: What are some ways that we already use it? It’s functionally, just a pre-cooked protein. That’s really what it is. What are some ways that we can use that? [Can we] incorporate it in places that you might use a rotisserie chicken? I think when we approach it from that point of view, it becomes quite approachable.

Pasta is a really great one, because you’re able to utilize the entire contents of the can. I really love the olive oil that a lot of fish are packed in. I think a pasta is a really great way of utilizing it, because you’re kind of paying for the whole thing, and the oil itself is immensely flavorful. So, that’s one of the things that really sits at the top of my list.

And I also think of turning things into a dip. It’s not that different than a Buffalo chicken dip. A sandwich is also in that territory. Put it on toast. [Try] things that don’t require a lot of additional preparation or advanced cooking techniques.

What are some ingredients you keep on hand for making quick meals with tinned fish?

I’m always of the mindset that if I want to make a meal with tinned fish and want to dress up a can, there’s really two things that I’m looking for: a texture, and some kind of condiment or an acid. It needs a vehicle. Maybe that’s a piece of toast, maybe that’s crackers that live in my pantry, a box of spaghetti. I think that solves very easily.

And then dressing it up, I think a touch of lemon goes a very long way, because one of the things you can’t really put in these cans is acid; it tends to break down the fish over time. If you’ve ever seen canned fish in hot sauce—I know that’s something that has been around for a while. King Oscar pulled them because the acidity makes the fish break down over time. That’s something we can add back in [with] hot sauce, lemons, any kind of condiment, I love even chimichurri. I think that’s also something that’s delicious on it.

Tinned fish had this sort of “hot girl” reputation for a while. Where do you think that came from? Because, correct me if I’m wrong, but the origins of tinned fish and tinned food in general tend to be fairly humble.

Absolutely. That’s something I think about myself, and it’s not terminology that I ever use, and I approach that quite intentionally. Canned food was developed in England to preserve food so you could send it to soldiers on the front line. It was more or less a wartime invention. In the U.S., I think of Cannery Row and Monterey during the World War[s] period [approximately 1914-1945], and how that level of overfishing actually completely decimated that part of the Pacific.

When I think of the history of canned seafood and where it comes from, it’s really not sexy.

So, when I think of the history of canned seafood and where it comes from, it’s really not sexy. But one of my hypotheses is, with this recent surge in travel, especially in the last 10 years, a lot of people are going to areas of Western Europe that may have these traditions. I think of Portugal, I think of Spain, [they] have this culture of conserva and really have a reverence for it. These are where we’re getting those tins that are not $1 or $2, but the ones that might be $10, $12, $15, and have a lot more variety in the species of shellfish and seafood that they’re using, and in turn, bringing that back to the States. Then we have this association where it’s a little more special than the wartime rations that we were seeing 100 years ago from the declining industry.

I think another part that people speak to is the nutrition of it. It’s not something I really think of or speak on, personally. I really want to focus on the culture of it, but that’s a really big motivator for people. Canned seafood, because a lot of it has the bones in it and you’re eating the whole fish, it might have omega-3s and a lot of calcium. I think the U.S. as a whole has really moved towards eating a lot of protein. I think that’s something I’ve observed. There’s protein in soda now. There’s protein being added to popcorn and added to crackers and all these foods. So, it’s all these different factors, compounded together.

What are some easy holiday party snacks that you can make with tinned fish?

One of my favorite things—I actually just made some right before I hopped on this call—is making a smoked fish dip. I think it’s something that is so ubiquitous and so familiar here, and I think because there’s already that point of reference that may be familiar for people. If you’ve had a smoked white fish salad, or if you’ve had lox on a bagel, or if you’ve had any kind of smoked fish in the past, I think those are things that are quite prevalent and quite easy for people to accept.

And canned fish just makes it that much easier. Instead of having to process your own smoked white fish, or instead of having to think about preparing this in advance, I can have smoked salmon that sits on my shelf for six months, a year or two years, and I can kind of whip this together anytime. So for me, that’s one of the easiest appetizers, taking some cream cheese or sour cream, a can of smoked salmon or smoked trout, and some herbs, maybe a squeeze of lemon, and in 5 minutes, you have something that is just absolutely delicious and made with things that are in your pantry.

There are so many trendy tin fish brands, and you can find it everywhere from a regular grocery store to Trader Joe’s. Where do you you suggest people shop for tinned fish?

I mean, I love shopping at my regular grocery store. That’s where I started, where I shopped most frequently. Trader Joe’s has a really robust lineup of canned seafood, and they’ve had it for a long time. One of the things I look for, regardless of where you’re at, is an understanding of your own preferences. I personally don’t love sardines packed in water. I think the texture is going to be a lot mealier, and oftentimes people describe it as being a little fishier. So, as a very elementary starting point, no matter where I’m at, I look for something that’s packed in olive oil or packed in oil of some sort. And we’re not talking about the fancy tins. We’re talking about anything. I love a King Oscar sardine. They have these wonderful ones that are very small, brisling sardines packed in olive oil—$2.97 at my grocery store. That’s something that I come back to all the time.

Regardless of price, I think it’s really about exploring the options that are available to you first, and then learning your preferences from there. Even sardines vary so much. I like the little brisling sardines. Some people like big, meaty ones. You’ve got to start somewhere. And there’s no better place than your local grocery store.

I have a selfish question: I’ve been very interested in tinned octopus because I love grilled octopus. Do you have any tips for preparing or serving it?

I think canned octopus is really one of the best. It’s so incredible. It really showcases canning as a technology. It sounds a little nerdy, but if I’m cooking octopus myself, let’s say it’s around Christmastime and I’m doing a Feast of the Seven Fishes. Cooking octopus means this long process One: It’s this giant, slimy thing. Two: You often have to marinate it. A lot of people like to salt it, and then you’re going to boil it, and you’re going to cook it for an hour, two hours even. It’s very hard to get octopus tender, and it’s something that is quite challenging to cook and prepare at home. And they don’t really sell it in small quantities. You’re kind of buying an entire octopus, or at least a good cluster of tentacles, right? And then, after you’ve par-cooked it, simmering it or blanching it somehow, then you’ve got to grill it. There’s so many steps. It’s just not something I ever think about eating in my day-to-day life.

But when you cook it in a can, the way that it’s done is the can goes under an autoclave, which is just like a big pressure cooker that sterilizes it, and that means your octopus is perfectly tender every single time it comes out of the can. I’m not dealing with this accidentally overcooked, rubbery texture. Instead of spending two hours boiling my own octopus, I can just open a can. To me, that’s the best thing. That’s the best showcase of the can as a technology.

And how do you usually serve tinned octopus?

I like to just dump it straight out of the can and serve it at room temperature with a little bit of smoked paprika and lemon juice on it, and then serve it on toast. It’s perfect as is. I also love turning it into a sort of a ceviche or an agua chile, and adding something very bright and acidic and using it in that format, with the idea that instead of making it as you do traditionally, and having to cook the pulpo for two hours or in a pressure cooker for 45 minutes, you just kind of skip past that part and continue with the rest of the recipe.

Quotes have been edited for length and clarity.

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Claire Lower

Claire Lower is the Digital Editor for Christopher Kimball’s Milk Street, with over a decade of experience as a food writer and recipe developer. Claire began writing about food (and drinks) during the blogging boom in the late 2000s, eventually leaving her job as a lab technician to pursue writing full-time. After freelancing for publications such as Serious Eats, Yahoo Food, xoJane and Cherry Bombe Magazine, she eventually landed at Lifehacker, where she served as the Senior Food Editor for nearly eight years. Claire lives in Portland, Oregon with a very friendly dog and very mean cat. When not in the kitchen (or at her laptop), you can find her deadlifting at the gym, fly fishing or trying to master figure drawing at her local art studio.